User talk:Dystopos/Archive 1

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This is an archive of messages posted to User talk:Dystopos through March 31, 2007:


  • Should I send e-mail, comment here, or comment elsewhere? I looked at the Bhamwiki:Community Portal page and saw the need for school pages. I did a search on schools, which led me to the List of school systems. I followed the one active link to Jefferson County and performed a minor fix. Then I tried to get back without using the back button. Jefferson County leads to Category:Schools, which leads to Category:Education. However neither includes the List of school systems. Should this list be in the Schools category, too? (Sorry, I'm essentially new to actually editing Wikis.) --Lkseitz 12:30, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
  • What's the criteria for a person getting their own entry? For example Darin Powell. I stubbed out an article for him because I discovered a link to him in the Birmingham Weekly article. Is he really important enough in Birmingham history to merit a page? Or is it better to have a page for him, just so it can be expanded a little without cluttering the Birmingham Weekly one? Other examples: Mark Maisel, publisher and editor of BTN; Allen and Susan Hammack, founders of Lion and Unicorn. In short, people that are primarily known in Birmingham for a single thing, such as owning a particular shop. --Lkseitz 18:44, 30 May 2006 (PDT)



  • Just a quick thanks for helping me find my feet. Glad that my favorite city has this project going for it! -- Rob 19:40, 2 October 2006 (PDT)
  • You're welcome. Me too. --Dystopos 19:42, 2 October 2006 (PDT)


  1. The problem with the text being outside the boxes is a </div> is getting inserted immediately after the one that opens to contain the text. Unfortunately, I cannot determine the cause for this. It doesn't appear to be in a template; rather it looks like something the software's doing (but I could be mistaken).
  2. The edit buttons not working seems to have to do with the "{{#if:{{{section|}}}|&section={{{section|}}}}}}}" bit in the template. This is called a predefined template over on Wikipedia. I'm suspecting this predefined template simply doesn't exist on BhamWiki, thus it doesn't do anything. You might try taking that bit out. I think, for your purposes, the links will work without it.
  3. I'm guessing the sub-pages linking back to the portal has to do with using the "Portal" namespace (instead of "Wikipedia" or, in our case, "Bhamwiki"). Of course, it's possible the whole portal thing isn't implemented here at BhamWiki. --Lkseitz 19:41, 10 October 2006 (PDT)
The </div> in Template:Box-footer is supposed to close one opened in Template:Box-header. I attempted to add a </div> tag to the end of Template:Sustainability box-footer, but the system treated it as literal text instead of an HTML tag, which confounds me. I've now tried it for Box-footer, but again the system treated it as text instead of a tag. I don't understand why. --Lkseitz 04:54, 11 October 2006 (PDT)


  • I would like to upload some pictures I have taken to illustrate articles. I have a scan of an old coin envelope from BTNB (which became SouthTrust) that has the old BTNB logo from the 70's on it. I think I can use the fair use tag for that. Also I have pictures of the 9-11 Memorial Walk, and will have others for future articles. I notice that you upload pictures you've taken, but I was wondering what the criteria for using the CC Image tag would be. --Wheresdib 13:54, 23 October 2006 (PDT)

School infobox

I've created an infobox for K-12 schools. You can see an example at Vestavia Hills High School. Unfortunately the lack of #if means all fields are required. Feedback desired. --Lkseitz 15:06, 25 October 2006 (PDT)

That's a lovely and inobtrusive box. That's important to me. In fact, the smaller the better. Looks like we could reduce the space between the columns a bit and omit the "www." from the link (or just show the word "link" in light blue next to the heading "website"). I think the name of the school should be inside the box (with no divider above the image) and, if you can make some of the fields optional, that would be grand. Otherwise, great job! --Dystopos 15:53, 25 October 2006 (PDT)
I've done what I can to reduce spaces between columns. I've also reduced the total width of the box. I've changed the website text to "Link" because the URL doesn't work without the "www". (This could be deceptive to someone who only had a printed version of the page.) I've moved the school name. Making fields optional is going to require getting #if to work in templates, which is beyond my skills and access level. I've added it to the Homewood High School article too now. --Lkseitz 11:30, 26 October 2006 (PDT)
I hadn't considered the use of printed versions. I think it's good to keep the urls intact. I also linked the enrollment to a new List of high schools by enrollment which is in an embryonic state but might someday be useful. Regarding the #if's, if you get the skills I'll be happy to work with you on access - but don't worry about it on my account. I think at some point I'll have to contract with a programmer for a few tweaks. I'll get your wish-list before I make a step like that.
By the way, in principle I'm still not a big fan of infoboxes. I find them to be rather redundant, to hog space, and to intimidate novice editors. This one does look nice though, and I definitely don't want to be squashing the ambitions of the people I rely on. By now BhamWiki is as much your baby as mine. --Dystopos 12:07, 26 October 2006 (PDT)
I agree they can be redundant and take up space, but as we've discussed earlier, they can also lead to less awkward bits being put in the text. Besides, I think in today's "gotta have it now" culture, they'll be popular with the casual surfer. Hopefully this one is straight-forward enough to not be too intimidating. (Chris, not that he's a novice, was quick to add one to Hewitt-Trussville High School.)
And thanks for saying that last bit, but considering my 90 articles (almost half of which are stubs) only make up 7% of BhamWiki, it's still your baby. (Yes, I know I've done more than articles, but I imagine that's probably a similar percentage compared to you.) --Lkseitz 06:34, 27 October 2006 (PDT)

Morris Family

I am in need of assistance (sp?). I know that William H. Morris was one of the original founders of the AREA that is now Birmingham. I have always been told that by my family. But, I'm not quite sure if Josiah Morris had any relation to William H. Morris, he had never been mention my my Great Grandmother or any of the matriarcs in my family. If she was alive I could ask, but it is not possible. I could also have asked my grandmother Mary Alice Morris, but she also died. There are no really clear sources in my family of which I know to ask, so, maybe you know some sort of link between Josiah Morris and the rest of the Morris Family. -- AlabamaGuy2007

Ok, so, Public Libary would help, ok, ummm, anything special I need to do in order to ask for info. I'm not too big of a visitor large libraries, so I have no idea what to do. Haha, but, even with the info that I would be very happy to get from you about this, I'm not too big on the idea of traveling to Birmingham just for this. Though it is important. AlabamaGuy2007 20:11, 1 November 2006 (PST)

Possible Link

Ok, took some digging, but, I might have found something of a link between William H. Morris and Josiah Morris.

Now, William had one brother, his name was Shadrach, AKA "Shades". Now, I know that Shades Creek, and Shades Valley were named after Shadrach. Knew all that before I dug. Where I found this possible link is here [1]. It inserts something into the story that made me think. Maybe Josiah is "Shades". "Shades'" wife's name was Elizabeth, I know that from family, but, Josiah also had a wife named Elizabeth. Another thing, both men came to Alabama from Georgia, probably Columbus. William came over from Rome, so, it's possible that the family was divided between Rome and Columbus. I have no clue if these two men are one, I can ask my grandfather and he would probably know. I'll do that tomorrow. AlabamaGuy2007 20:45, 31 October 2006 (PST)

Hmmm, well, maybe she's right. I have no clue, this is all very confusing. I still can't prove that they are the same person or not. Urghhh. AlabamaGuy2007 08:27, 1 November 2006 (PST)
  • Next time you find yourself in town with a couple of hours to kill, I'd just walk up to the desk in the Linn-Henley building (the one closest to Linn Park and strike up a conversation with a librarian. Tell her who you're interested in finding out about and they'll be sure to point you to some good resources. It's their job. There are numerous online resources available here: --Dystopos 20:16, 1 November 2006 (PST)


Do you think Category:1972 buildings should become a subcategory of Category:1972 works (etc) or do you think our coverage of buildings is likely to be so central that it needs to be directly under Category:1972? --Dystopos 10:05, 3 November 2006 (PST)

You don't ask simple questions any more, do you? :-) I could be persuaded to go either way, probably. My current feeling is that a city's buildings are often a focal point (less so than the other things I've seen in the Works categories), so I lean to the argument that they should go directly under the Year instead of Works. Perhaps reciprocal pointers should be added to Category:Buildings and Category:Works, at least at the top level? --Lkseitz 14:08, 6 November 2006 (PST)
I suppose it is also possible to put Category:Buildings in both the works category and directly in the year category. Does that sort of redundancy cause any actual harm or does it just strike you as sort of messy? --Dystopos 14:27, 6 November 2006 (PST)
I don't know any reason it would cause harm, but I'm no expert. It does strike me as messy and indecisive. This is one reason I'd like to see some categories given descriptions of what they apply to or mean (e.g. Category:Civic boosters, Category:Community activists). I tend to lump art and literature under "works" in my head, but not buildings. Whether that's typical or not, I don't know that I can say. --Lkseitz 14:54, 6 November 2006 (PST)

Map link template

I created Template:Locate to provide a link to Google Maps. Unfortunately, I don't see any way to target it to a new window within the MediaWiki system. I've added it to the Homewood entry to act as an example. Let me know what you think. --Lkseitz 14:34, 10 November 2006 (PST)

Unfortunately, setting the text of the map pointer isn't something you can do with a link, as far as I can tell. That would require JavaScript, and I haven't looked at the Google Maps API yet. (This would also mean showing the map on the article's page instead of as a link.) You can pass a query, but then you get something like this, which doesn't include a pointer at all. If you pass no query at all, you get a smaller map, still with no pointer. We can have the link text say whatever. How about, "Locate with / Google Maps" (where the / indicates separate lines)? I'll get started on an address template. --Lkseitz 19:16, 10 November 2006 (PST)

Locate city template

I discovered just putting a city and state in Google Maps will work as well, so there's now a new template called Template:Locate city. If you find it satisfactory, I'll change the current city pages using the old template to use this one. I've done Vestavia Hills as an example. --Lkseitz 10:57, 27 November 2006 (PST)

inline locate by lat/long

Your wish is my command: Template:Locate coords inline. --Lkseitz 07:25, 29 November 2006 (PST)

Type parameter

I've added a new parameter to all the map templates called "type." It lets you specify map ("m", default), satellite ("k"), or hybrid ("h"). (Don't blame me for the weirdness of using "k" for satellite maps; that's Google's doing. BhamWiki's implementation doesn't currently give me a good way to make it more user-friendly.) I noticed you were using Template:Locate coords inline to link to radio towers in the middle of big blank spots on the maps and thought the ability to specify hybrid or satellite maps might be of use. --Lkseitz 14:05, 21 December 2006 (PST)

  • Excellent. --Dystopos 14:36, 21 December 2006 (PST)

Highway 78 links

I noticed you went through the site and "fixed" all the U.S. Highway 78 links. You probably know this and simply did it for consistency reasons, but for the benefit of anyone else who happens by I'll point out that, according to Wikipedia, it's more costly to the server to edit the article and change the link than it is to let it use the redirect. OTOH, earlier on that page it says the use of redirect links lower a page's search engine ranking. --Lkseitz 13:40, 21 November 2006 (PST)


... on the Birmingham News article on page 1 today about BhamWiki. It is well-earned recognition. -- Rob 14:54, 25 November 2006 (PST)


Dystopos, I am now wondering how tied into Wiki this project is. I added a few things but my question is how do I get the article to read well and for the hilights to work on here like they do on reg Wiki? Artsojourner 06:50, 21 December 2006 (PST)


  • Lee, I think I may have steamrolled some of your clean-up on the Agnes article. I apologize. --Dystopos 08:17, 21 December 2006 (PST)
  • No big deal. You actually rewrote some of it while I just went through and did mechanical changes. --Lkseitz 08:27, 21 December 2006 (PST)

On bell hooks

I have worked with her. If she reads that her name is capitalized I would not want to be within ten feet of the moment. I assure you it is not caps ever. Artsojourner 11:17, 21 December 2006 (PST)

On Birmingham related artists

Would someone please set up a page of artists who may not have articles as of yet. It was be very helpful if someone saw and maybe knew something about thesse artists on this list. Namely: Frank Fleming, Janice Kluge, Cam Langley, Karen Graffeo, Sonja Rieger, Alan (possum) Doss, Chris Lawson, Dan Bynum, Kevin Irwin, Carolyn Sherer, etc etc etc -- Artsojourner

  • And I nominate Artsojourner to create the list! :P --Wheresdib 12:18, 21 December 2006 (PST)

Uh Oh!!!! I think I got carried away but I hope this helps and maybe some of the people who view these will know a little about them Likely if they are the artists themselves they will flesh them out a bit. Best, Artsojourner 17:25, 22 December 2006 (PST)


I dont claim or even want to put up a perfect article. Reformatting for another system can be somewhat daunting. I normally leave that to the experts and I have no claims on that. On the other hand, my strong point here on BHWP is to add information. I seem to have plenty of that and I feel that that is of assistance. I will try to give you the most updated information that I have and correct to the best of my ability. Other people have excellent editing and article-building skills. I will do what I do best and you guys do what you do best. We should get along just fine. Sweet! Artsojourner 08:31, 11 January 2007 (PST)

Category:Death of brain cancer

  • I think "Category:Cancer deaths" is a better formulation than "Category:Deaths of cancer".. and I'm not sure that category will be so large that it needs to be subdivided. What's on your mind? --Dystopos 08:19, 16 January 2007 (PST)
    • Yes, that's a better name. Thanks. I'm writing an entry for Harold Ruttenberg, who died of brain cancer. A previous entry I wrote, Jack Farr, also died of this. I was simply guessing "Cancer deaths" could get to be a really, really big category and perhaps it should be subdivided. It's easier to do that up front that go back and break it down after the fact. But I guess that category will do for now. --Lkseitz 08:35, 16 January 2007 (PST)

Idiots on the internet(me)

  • I feel like an idiot on this. I have alot of info but I dont want to look unprofessional. i have already done two pages and edited 2. I hope I am doing well. Sorry I suck.

:-) --User: Missinfo11 12:30, 25 January 2007 (CST)

Blizzard of 93

I think it must be some sort of milestone when we have articles I didn't even know we had. --Dystopos 14:05, 28 January 2007 (PST)

Hee, hee. Snuck one by you, did I? :-) Actually, I geared up and did a bunch of web surfing to research it, but when I got down to writing it, I seemed to lose my motiviation, resulting in a stub I never went back to. --Lkseitz 14:15, 28 January 2007 (PST)

Michael Jordan image

Please check out the image I uploaded for the Michael Jordan article. I copied and pasted the info from Wikipedia. If this doesn't conform to BW standards, please delete it. --Wheresdib 11:37, 31 January 2007 (PST)


  • What about mod_rewrite to allow wiki/Article_Title URLs (instead of index.php?title=) tollie 21:50, 10 February 2007 (PST)
  • I'd love to do that. I'm told that to do that I first need to upgrade the PHP version on my server, which will happen soon. I'm not personally knowledgeable about such things, so if you know what to do, we can talk about getting it done. --Dystopos 21:57, 10 February 2007 (PST)


  • I want to create a page for Tuscaloosa but I am stuck on how to do it. Do I create a disambiguation page and link to Tuscaloosa (city) and Tuscaloosa County, or do I just do a Tuscaloosa page for the city and a separate Tuscaloosa County page? --Wheresdib 08:36, 14 February 2007 (PST)

Ash Jewelers

  • I read that our guidelines are to not use puncuation marks for abbreviations, which is why I went with "A & A Ash" instead of "A. & A. Ash". I don't care that you moved the article, I just don't understand what the reasoning is. I was trying to follow the guidelines. --Wheresdib 07:43, 28 February 2007 (PST)
  • The international standard I am following uses periods only when the omitted letters are at the end of the word. So Dr, Mrs, Mr, Sr, Mtn, and Rd would not get periods, but initials and abbreviations with letters omitted at the end would. (Prof., Esq., Capt., Cir.). If it's all too confusing, then use whatever you like and don't be surprised if I scurry around behind you exercising my strange whims at will. --Dystopos 09:56, 28 February 2007 (PST)
  • OK. It is confusing, but it doesn't surprise me at all when you "scurry around behind" me. I am still confused, and never claimed to know "international standards". I understand the functionality of the wiki allows for you to make the changes but I also like to make it to where you don't have to move pages. On an unrelated note, when I walked by their store today, there are signs up stating that they are going out of business. --Wheresdib 10:24, 28 February 2007 (PST)

Nehemiah's Quest

  • Well no wonder; we're Google's number one result for that search term. While the group's own site is much further down. How odd. And I wonder what's spurring those searches? Thanks for the tip. --Lkseitz 07:30, 27 March 2007 (PDT)

Info for the Year articles

  • Just curious, where do you get so much info? For example, on the 1998 article, I used the 1998 category to start, then did a search on 1998 inside the site. I don't know how I missed so much stuff. --Wheresdib 13:16, 27 March 2007 (PDT)