User talk:Artsojourner

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Hello and welcome to Bhamwiki. We're really excited to see your contributions. If you haven't already, please read our User agreement and then feel free to dive in. --Dystopos 13:04, 19 December 2006 (PST)

Tied in

  • Dystopos, I am now wondering how tied into Wiki this project is. I added a few things but my question is how do I get the article to read well and for the hilights to work on here like they do on reg Wiki? Artsojourner 06:50, 21 December 2006 (PST)
  • Bhamwiki is not formally related to Wikipedia, except that I have installed a version of the same software that Wikipedia runs on. So wikilinks and categories will only work if there is a Bhamwiki article/category by that name. When transferring an article from Wikipedia to Bhamwiki its best to take out the double-brackets for articles on which Bhamwiki doesn't need an article. If there are concepts which need an explanation, then an external link to Wikipedia can be made using single brackets. (But I would use those sparingly). Also, I have not implemented Wikipedia's reference system, so we'll need to use our own parenthetical or superscript reference keys to cite quotes or specific claims. --Dystopos 07:36, 21 December 2006 (PST)

bell hooks

  • Ironically, she says she chose the miniscule to reduce the presence of her personality in assessments of her work. --Dystopos 12:29, 21 December 2006 (PST)

List of artists

  • I've started the list you suggested. It needs enormous expansion, with both red and blue links. Adding basic info "(born-died), media" might be appropriate, as might be some subdividing, by either era or media. --Dystopos 12:29, 21 December 2006 (PST)
Uh Oh!!!! I think I got carried away but I hope this helps and maybe some of the people who view these will know a little about them Likely if they are the artists themselves they will flesh them out a bit. Best, Artsojourner 17:25, 22 December 2006 (PST)
  • Excellent work. It's far too soon to lay down criteria which would narrow the list, though that may someday be appropriate. Right now the list - for obvious reasons - biases toward contemporary and recent figures. We should aim to correct that bias by researching notable artists from other eras. At the same time, all of these deserving figures should have at least a stub article with whatever facts and references we can produce to put them into an encyclopedic context. Cheers. --Dystopos 19:24, 22 December 2006 (PST)

I concur. Arthur Stewart and Edith Frohock practically put Bham on the map in a contempory sense as far as art goes and several I listed including meembers of "The Ruckus Group" should have articles soonest. Artsojourner 10:38, 23 December 2006 (PST)


In converting your articles from the Wikipedia format, you're now doing a better job of eliminating links that won't be found here at BhamWiki. However, please try to remember to update the categories at the bottom of the entry, too. Thanks. --Lkseitz 06:45, 11 January 2007 (PST)

  • But don't be discouraged. It's easier for me to fix things than to create them from scratch. --Dystopos 07:11, 11 January 2007 (PST)

I dont claim or even want to put up a perfect article. Reformatting for another system can be somewhat daunting. I normally leave that to the experts and I have no claims on that. On the other hand, my strong point BHWP is to add information. I seem to have plenty of that and I feel that that is of assistance. I will try to give you the most updated information that I have and correct to the best of my ability. Other people have excellent editing and article-building skills. I will do what I do best and you guys do what you do best. We should get along just fine. Sweet! Artsojourner 08:26, 11 January 2007 (PST)


  • I added the easy info for the 1963 article, and put it into the format used on our Year articles (see 1966, 1969 for reference). The running commentary is usually saved for individual articles or put under the "Context" heading. All the other categories are usually bullet points on here. I did keep your Events commentary intact, I just moved it to Context. --Wheresdib 16:14, 18 February 2008 (PST)


I appreciate you making the page for "Alabama Art Monthly." It was definitely a labor of love and a great publication that brought the arts together like never before in the state and it was very much enjoyed but the powers that be decided against it so it went by the wayside since I could no longer afford to foot the bill. --Artsojourner 14:25, 20 February 2008 (PST)

No problem. You wrote the article; I just separated it from Agnes. It started out with "Birmingham" in the name, so it seemed worthy of a full entry. --Lkseitz 14:35, 20 February 2008 (PST)
I appreciate you for doing this because AAM really did matter. It got more people interested in the arts in Birmingham and Alabama. Don't take my word for it. I do think it was a little too ahead of its time though. Artsojourner 08:23, 21 February 2008 (PST)


  • Was Club 21 across from John's Restaurant, in the Florentine Building? If so, what was the other club on 21st St South, around 3rd Avenue? I used to frequent Club 312 on 20th, and once we walked over to the "gay bar" on 21st. I was thinking it was called Club 21 but that was a long time ago (c. 1992). --Wheresdib 14:26, 21 February 2008 (PST)
  • Yes it was just across the street John's in the terra cotta building. Beautiful inside and out.. It was a gay bar but on Thursdays it was open to everyone and everyone went there regardless of straight, gay, black, white it was there for everyone. I miss it more than all the other bars combined. It was a point in time and had a lasting effect on many. Artsojourner 15:40, 21 February 2008 (PST)
  • Do you know much about the DJ John Kelley? Was he in Full Moon Blanket (which would make him Jon without the H)? He and his brother were in the band along with other denizens from Montevallo, around the same time (early 1990s). --Wheresdib 16:52, 21 February 2008 (PST)
Unfortunately I didn't keep up with him. What I do know is he played "Floodland" by "Sisters of Mercy everytime he saw me in the club because he knew it was my favorite. I really liked the guy though. He was arguably the best DJ B'Ham ever had but thats the old "Goth" side coming out in me. LOL Artsojourner 18:21, 21 February 2008 (PST)

I actually called Fanture today to see how she is going living in Georgia on the farm and her sister Keri in B'ham What a wonderful pair.

On Club 21

I don't think I would call what you did to the article whitewashing because whitwashing means covering something up. what actually happened here is that you stripped it of any revelance. Now it sound ho hum and thats sad. Lets keep working on it because this is one phase in Birmingham past where it was avant garde and at the forefront and not a follower. I think that is important. "Goth" night never aspired to keeping it the status Quo. Clipping the mixed part where everyone regardless of color, sexuality or whatever makes it appear just like every other place in B'ham and we know thats not reality. I looked for local newspaper clippings about this article but didn't find any but I will continue to look. Please do the same if you have resources to do so. I should go look up some pictures from then. Artsojourner 10:38, 22 February 2008 (PST)

  • I am trying to rewrite it so that it is encyclopedic. You can't make claims without a source, not on here. We allow some original research, but mainly for info that is factual. Just about everything you write has a slant to it, and while there's nothing wrong with that, it is hard to let opinions stay unsourced. I looked for articles on Club 21 and couldn't find any. It isn't perfect, and it isn't necessarily right, but we have to be unbiased on here. Also, I removed the info about the clothing store because it was irrelevant to the article on the club.--Wheresdib 10:45, 22 February 2008 (PST)


  • To create an auto-redirect, use #REDIRECT [[pagename]]. --Wheresdib 20:46, 9 March 2008 (PDT)


  • Hi, Dan sent me a couple of e-mails with info for an article this morning and I'm just now getting around to creating one. Quite a coincidence, eh? I wanted to explain why reverting a few changes you made. This is based solely on what I consider "Bhamwiki style". If there's something you disagree with, I'm sure we can work out a consensus.
  • Inline links - I try to use these sparingly, and not repeat links that are already in the "external links" section.
  • It's better to write out references in bibliographic form than to just use external links for citation. In this case the link doesn't really support the critical opinion, so it's better to remove it until we find someone to attribute any opinions to.
  • When something deserves its own article (like UAB Visual Arts Gallery), I prefer the red link because it hints at where expansion is needed.
  • The external link to Bare Hands Gallery isn't needed because we link to the Bhamwiki article which tells all about the gallery (and has its own external link).
I hate feeling like I'm undermining other people's work, but I'm just trying to stick to my idea about what Bhamwiki is best at. Thanks for understanding. --Dystopos 20:51, 9 March 2008 (PDT)
Dan is one of my favorite artists in Birmingham. It is hard not to want to elaborate but I do understand it has to hold up to Bhamwiki standards. Very interesting that we are on the same page on this though Hmmm Bynum's articles seems meant to be tonight. No worries about hurting my feelings you haven't and you didn't. Artsojourner 20:55, 9 March 2008 (PDT)


I think I agree with Darren. Separating the date articles into sections really only makes sense when they become unwieldy (and I hope they will) --Dystopos 07:04, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

Looks like April 8 would be a good place to start tinkering with format. --Dystopos 07:16, 10 March 2008 (PDT)


Thanks for the note. Apparently the BPD finds the list useful, too. --Dystopos 21:33, 2 April 2008 (PDT)